Author Topic: Why not join forces with Arduino  (Read 3687 times)

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cver65

Why not join forces with Arduino
« on: October 14, 2011, 03:54:44 PM »
I was just wondering, given that Arduino got so much traction and Wiring (while its source) does not appear so crowded, why don't you just join forces ?

Anything personal ?

bhagman

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2011, 05:24:40 PM »
We'd love to.  We have a mission to have the Wiring framework working on as many microcontrollers as possible.  Arduino uses Atmel controllers, and we support about 80% of the ATmega controllers (in Wiring 1.0).

Arduino forked the Wiring source in 2005.  Wiring started as Hernando Barragan's thesis project in 2003, and Massimo Banzi was Hernando's thesis supervisor, along with Casey Reas of Processing.  In 2005, Massimo co-founded Arduino by forking the Wiring source and creating some affordable hardware.

Since then, the Arduino and Wiring API/Framework and IDE have not deviated very much at all, and we have asked the Arduino guys if they want to merge back so that we can focus on the software, and they can focus on their hardware (after all, they make the money on the hardware, not the software).

The response has been pretty quiet, and we often see the struggles that they have in maintaining their fork of the source.  I think it would be fantastic if we could bring all of our strengths together, instead of working on two forks of the same software project.

It would be great if more people would ask the question to the Arduino guys, and not us!  We are totally ready, willing, and able to work on the software with them/for them.  It's just a matter of convincing them!

Brett

cver65

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2012, 11:58:47 PM »
It's now clear to me that they completely messed up with the so-called "1.0" breaking everyth ing. A pity. And in addition, they are silent in all languages on the forums ... I recently discovered that you disclosed some cooperation with leaflabs to use the same IDE for the maple, any progress in that direction ? I'm interested going 32 bits but the leaflabs IDE doesn't seem as solid as Arduinos.

bhagman

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2012, 02:04:18 AM »
I'm not going to comment on the independent changes to the Wiring Framework contained in the recent Arduino 1.0 release.

LeafLabs is fantastic!  The gang there are a bright bunch and we're happy that they are going to work with us.

We are working on solidifying the back-end part of Wiring, such that you can use any IDE you want - ranging from the tried-and-true Processing IDE derivative, or other mainstay editors, such as Eclipse.

rei_vilo

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 09:41:36 PM »
Do you remember the band New Kids On The Block?

Diligent has launched chipKIT, a 32-bit 80 MHz Arduino form factor-compatible boards based on the powerful Microchip PIC32 micro-controller.

The IDE, called MPIDE for multiple platforms IDE, deals with ARV-based and PIC32-based boards.

Learn more about the chipKIT UNO32 and how it compares with the Arduino UNO on my website.

So many new kids are coming, and the block might be crowded soon!

What are the news about the MSP430 implementation of Wiring?

cver65

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2012, 10:56:41 AM »
Hi Vilo,

I'm afraid the block is far from crowded ...
I finally decided to bet on two horses, and bought a Pinguino micro (PIC32) and a LPC1343 (ARM, Philips/NXP) with some breadboarding space. Both quickly received, but porting from Arduino to these boards seems incredibly tough. Tried IAR platform and Pinguino IDE, none really up par.

In the mean time, I'll fine tune my MEGA program a bit.

cver65

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 05:30:36 AM »
Rei,

I looked a bit further in MPIDE, and I clearly was mistaken thinking the project was stalled ! Maybe that is indeed the bandwagon to join for Wiring ? I'm unsure that everything is right regarding the copyrights etc. because the revisions.txt for example, but they appear to at least retrofit both improvements from Arduino (0023) and Wiring 1.0 in their solution.

Now if MPIDE could also support pinguino HW and some Olimex ARM boards, I'd be VERY happy ;-)

Opinions ?

bhagman

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2012, 10:34:23 AM »
The funny thing is that I talked to Mark Sproul and Rick Anderson just slightly before and after the combined Microchip press release of ChipKIT.

I told them what we were doing with Wiring, and unfortunately, they are like most of the others at the Arduino camp; stuck with their heads in the sand.  They seemed pretty disinterested in working with us, which was quite sad, since they have put a lot of effort into an already flawed system they have put together (their architecture support would make the average engineer pull their hair out).

cver65

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2012, 03:33:47 AM »
Hmm. I feel I have to play devil's advocate here.In cases of miscommunication, usually no party is 100% (or 0%) correct. Are really "most of the others at the Arduino camp [...] stuck with their heads in the sand" ? What about ... the Wiring camp ?

Sure, Wiring is "the original". Sure, Arduino 1.0 is an "Microsoft-like" deviation. But where does Wiring 1.1 stay ? Where are the commits on github ? I don't intend to shoot at the pianist here, but probably "they" have good reasons to believe in their "flawed system".

To me, this is not a "funny thing" at all, it is an occurence of the most annoying weakness of the "Open" community : the NIH syndrome.

Since I believe in _constructive_ criticism and discussions, could you elaborate on where the MPIDE approach is flawed, especially as compared to Wiring's approach ?

Who knows, maybe it could help me understand what I need to do to support my LPC1343 board with Wiring ... ;-)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2012, 05:43:15 AM by cver65 »

egnoske

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2012, 01:13:32 AM »
I noticed you are interested in getting wiring to support the lpcxpresso platforms. I'd like that too, how can we collaborate?

cver65

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2012, 08:15:25 AM »
@egnoske, frankly I don't know. My own involvement was put on hold when I bricked my Arduino MEGA and its environment, so I first need to solve "bigger issues" first. I'd like to be able to create a sketch in Wiring and get it on my LPC1343 board from Olimex, but I don't grasp te inners of how the compilers etc. work in the Processing/Wiring world.

I'm ready to do what I can, and I really find it sad that there aren't more people wanting to get the Wiring platform fulfil its promises, but I obviously can't do it alone, and I miss some knowledge. Besides, there is so little activity on github's Wiring project that it looks like no one else is interested getting it forward. Even leaflabs/maple continue to support/improve their own version instead of merging here. I don't understand why.

I tried IAR for the LPC1343, but couldn't get it to work. So for the moment I'm back to arduino0022 platform, using a nano and a DINo. For those I could actually use Wiring as well, but since no one seems to answer the real questions, I stay to my own answer : nobody has time, so nothing happens.

Have you an idea of what would be needed to support LPC on Wiring ? There is no "bootloader" on LPC, it's replaced by an USB disk emulation, so all you need is to generate a "binary.hex" file and write it on the board. But ... how ?

barragan

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2012, 09:41:51 PM »
First thing to do in porting the Wiring Framework to a new platform is to proceed with the core,
check the Common folder, as its name suggests this is common to all cores, you don;t have to take care about the definitions in there: https://github.com/WiringProject/Wiring/tree/master/framework/cores/Common
inside the folder  https://github.com/WiringProject/Wiring/tree/master/framework/cores/AVR8Bit you'll find the core implementation for the atmel avr8 family,
In https://github.com/WiringProject/Wiring/tree/master/framework/cores/AVR8Bit/libraries you'll find the libraries implemented for the AVR core which rely on the avr hardware
In https://github.com/WiringProject/Wiring/tree/master/framework/libraries you'll find the cross platform libraries, they don't relay at all on any hardware.
The documentation for what's required in the core for the platform you want to port is here: http://wiki.wiring.co/wiki/Category:Developers_Reference
of course everything is under construction. Christopher I've tried several times to have a conversation on Skype with you regarding your possible involvement and help, but it seemed not possible. The git repository will be updated soon enough with very nice surprises.
Let me know if you need help with specifics, you're welcome to discuss the developers api etc, so we can introduce those in the Framework.

fernandodch

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2012, 10:47:15 PM »
Hola, quería compartir un post que he publicado en el foro de Aduino, Hernando Barragan espero que lo puedas seguir y participar de este, me gustaría que en el foro de Arduino se expresaran tanto la gente de WIRING como la de Arduino.

http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php/topic,111705.0.html

Agradezco enormemente a toda la comunidad que hace WIRING y Arduino!


Saludos.

cver65

Re: Why not join forces with Arduino
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2012, 04:18:47 PM »
fernando,

though I understand somewhat espanol, Could you please repeat in English ? This forum is not really supposed to be multilingual, at least not on the thread level ...

If you read this thread and a few others, for example related to the MPIDE, you'll probably start to understand that there is very little technical reasons for the split. Is more like a family dispute here IMHO.